Japanese · Upper intermediate (B2) · Chapter 1 of 12
Discussing and debating
議論するGiron suru
Argue a point at a formal meeting: concede with 確かに, とはいえ and ～ても, say what should be done with べき and disagree or interrupt politely.
In this chapter you'll learn to
- Concede a point with 確かに, とはいえ, ～ても and にもかかわらず
- Structure an argument and say what should be done with べき
- Disagree softly with のではないでしょうか
- Interrupt politely and keep your turn
Listen
At a neighbourhood association meeting in Saitama, Morita Kyoko and Hirano Masaru disagree about what to do with an empty lot; Mr Ueda chairs. Listen to the whole dialogue first, then line by line.
Mr Ueda
皆さん、こんばんは。本日の議題は、駅の北側にある空き地の活用についてです。公園にするか、駐車場にするか、まずは森田さんからご意見をお願いします。
Minasan, konbanwa. Honjitsu no gidai wa, eki no kitagawa ni aru akichi no katsuyō ni tsuite desu. Kōen ni suru ka, chūshajō ni suru ka, mazu wa Morita-san kara goiken o onegai shimasu.
Good evening, everyone. Tonight's item is how to use the empty lot on the north side of the station. A park or a car park? Ms Morita, could we have your view first?
Ms Morita
ありがとうございます。私は公園にするべきだと思います。まず、この地域には、子供が安全に遊べる場所がありません。次に、高齢者の方がゆっくり散歩したり、休んだりできる場所も必要です。
Arigatō gozaimasu. Watashi wa kōen ni suru beki da to omoimasu. Mazu, kono chiiki ni wa, kodomo ga anzen ni asoberu basho ga arimasen. Tsugi ni, kōreisha no kata ga yukkuri sanpo shitari, yasundari dekiru basho mo hitsuyō desu.
Thank you. I think it should become a park. First, there's nowhere in this area where children can play safely. Second, older people also need somewhere to take a gentle walk or have a rest.
Mr Hirano
一つよろしいですか。確かに、子供の遊び場は大切です。とはいえ、駅の周りは駐車場が足りなくて、路上駐車が毎日のように問題になっています。それに…
Hitotsu yoroshii desu ka. Tashika ni, kodomo no asobiba wa taisetsu desu. To wa ie, eki no mawari wa chūshajō ga tarinakute, rojō chūsha ga mainichi no yō ni mondai ni natte imasu. Sore ni…
May I make a point? Admittedly, a place for children to play is important. Even so, there aren't enough car parks around the station, and cars parked in the street cause problems almost every day. What's more …
Ms Morita
お話の途中ですみません。でも、駐車場を作っても、路上駐車はあまり減らないのではないでしょうか。
Ohanashi no tochū de sumimasen. Demo, chūshajō o tsukutte mo, rojō chūsha wa amari heranai no de wa nai deshō ka.
Sorry to interrupt. But even if we build a car park, isn't it likely that street parking won't go down much?
Mr Hirano
すみません、最後まで言わせてください。駐車場にすれば、毎月収入が入ります。公園にしたら、手入れの費用は町内会の負担になります。負担が増えても、公園を作るべきでしょうか。
Sumimasen, saigo made iwasete kudasai. Chūshajō ni sureba, maitsuki shūnyū ga hairimasu. Kōen ni shitara, teire no hiyō wa chōnaikai no futan ni narimasu. Futan ga fuete mo, kōen o tsukuru beki deshō ka.
Sorry, please let me finish. If it becomes a car park, money will come in every month. If it becomes a park, the cost of looking after it will fall on the neighbourhood association. Should we really build a park, even if it costs us more?
Mr Ueda
森田さん、今の点についてはいかがですか。
Morita-san, ima no ten ni tsuite wa ikaga desu ka.
Ms Morita, what do you say to that point?
Ms Morita
費用の問題は確かにあります。ただ、公園は子供のためだけではなく、住民みんなのための場所です。それに、去年のアンケートでは半数以上の住民が公園を希望していたにもかかわらず、まだ何も決まっていません。
Hiyō no mondai wa tashika ni arimasu. Tada, kōen wa kodomo no tame dake de wa naku, jūmin minna no tame no basho desu. Sore ni, kyonen no ankēto de wa hansū ijō no jūmin ga kōen o kibō shite ita ni mo kakawarazu, mada nani mo kimatte imasen.
The cost is certainly an issue. But a park isn't only for children; it's a place for all the residents. And although more than half the residents asked for a park in last year's survey, nothing has been decided yet.
Mr Hirano
一方で、そのアンケートに答えたのは住民の三割ほどです。駐車場が足りないという声も多いんですよ。
Ippō de, sono ankēto ni kotaeta no wa jūmin no sanwari hodo desu. Chūshajō ga tarinai to iu koe mo ōi n desu yo.
On the other hand, only about thirty per cent of residents answered that survey. A lot of people also say there aren't enough parking spaces.
Ms Morita
では、こういうのはどうでしょう。空き地の半分を公園に、残りの半分を小さな駐車場にするんです。そうすれば、駐車場の収入で公園の費用を払えます。
De wa, kō iu no wa dō deshō. Akichi no hanbun o kōen ni, nokori no hanbun o chiisana chūshajō ni suru n desu. Sō sureba, chūshajō no shūnyū de kōen no hiyō o haraemasu.
Well then, how about this? We turn half the lot into a park and the other half into a small car park. That way, the money from the car park can pay for the park.
Mr Hirano
なるほど、それなら私も賛成できます。いい妥協案だと思います。
Naruhodo, sore nara watashi mo sansei dekimasu. Ii dakyōan da to omoimasu.
I see. In that case, I can agree too. I think it's a good compromise.
Mr Ueda
つまり、半分ずつということですね。では、この案を次回までに具体的に検討して、最後は多数決で決めましょう。
Tsumari, hanbun zutsu to iu koto desu ne. De wa, kono an o jikai made ni gutaiteki ni kentō shite, saigo wa tasūketsu de kimemashō.
So, in other words, half and half. Then let's look at this idea in detail before the next meeting, and in the end decide by a majority vote.
Understand
Conceding a point
In a debate you often admit that the other side is partly right before you disagree. The everyday way is (tashika ni), certainly, admittedly, followed by (ga) or (kedo), but: (tashika ni kōen wa taisetsu desu ga), admittedly a park is important, but … Starting the next sentence with (to wa ie), even so, that said, does the same job and sounds a little more formal.
The te-form + (mo) means “even if”: (tsukutte mo), even if we build it; (takakute mo), even if it's expensive. Nouns and な-adjectives take (demo): (ame demo), even if it rains. (ni mo kakawarazu), despite, even though, is formal. It follows a plain form or a noun and is used for facts: (kibō shite ita ni mo kakawarazu), even though they had asked for it.
| Pattern | Meaning | Note |
|---|---|---|
| …、… (tashika ni … ga, …) | admittedly …, but … | the everyday way to concede |
| 、… (to wa ie, …) | even so, that said | starts a sentence; a little formal |
| ～ても (-te mo) | even if … | (tsukutte mo), (takakute mo), (ame demo) |
| … (… ni mo kakawarazu) | despite …, even though … | formal; after a plain form or a noun |
- 駐車場を作っても、路上駐車は減らないと思います。Chūshajō o tsukutte mo, rojō chūsha wa heranai to omoimasu.Even if we build a car park, I don't think street parking will go down.
- 雨にもかかわらず、たくさんの住民が集まりました。Ame ni mo kakawarazu, takusan no jūmin ga atsumarimashita.Despite the rain, lots of residents came.
Building an argument
Mark the order of your points with (mazu), first, and (tsugi ni), next. (ippō de), on the other hand, brings in another side of the question, and (sore ni taishite), in contrast, sets two positions against each other. (tsumari), in other words, so, sums up what has been said.
To say what should be done, put (beki da) after the dictionary form: (kōen ni suru beki da to omoimasu), I think it should be a park. (suru) also has the short form (subeki). The negative is (beki de wa nai), should not. is strong, so at a meeting it is usually wrapped in (to omoimasu) or turned into a question: (tsukuru beki deshō ka), should we really build it?
| Japanese | Meaning |
|---|---|
| (mazu) | first, to begin with |
| (tsugi ni) | next, secondly |
| (ippō de) | on the other hand, meanwhile |
| (sore ni taishite) | in contrast |
| (tsumari) | in other words, so |
| / (beki da / beki de wa nai) | should / should not |
Disagreeing and interrupting politely
A flat (chigaimasu), that's wrong, sounds rude at a meeting. Turn your objection into a question with (no de wa nai deshō ka) after a plain form: (heranai no de wa nai deshō ka), isn't it likely that it won't go down? In speech it often becomes (n ja nai deshō ka).
Before you interrupt, apologise: (ohanashi no tochū de sumimasen), sorry to interrupt. To ask for the floor, say (hitotsu yoroshii desu ka), may I make a point? To keep it, use the causative you know from B1: (saigo made iwasete kudasai), please let me finish.
- それは少し違うのではないでしょうか。Sore wa sukoshi chigau no de wa nai deshō ka.I'm not sure that's quite right.
- お話の途中ですみません。一つよろしいですか。Ohanashi no tochū de sumimasen. Hitotsu yoroshii desu ka.Sorry to interrupt. May I make a point?
- すみません、最後まで言わせてください。Sumimasen, saigo made iwasete kudasai.Sorry, please let me finish.
More in the grammar: Advice and obligation
New words
- 議題gidaiitem on the agenda, topic for discussion · ぎだい; (honjitsu no gidai), today's item
- 空き地akichiempty lot, vacant plot · あきち; a car park is a (chūshajō), and parking in the street is (rojō chūsha); (tarinai), not enough
- 活用katsuyōmaking use of, putting to use · かつよう; verb: (katsuyō suru)
- ～べき-bekishould, ought to · after the dictionary form: (suru beki) or (subeki)
- 安全anzensafe; safety · あんぜん; な-adjective: (anzen ni asoberu), can play safely
- 高齢者kōreishaelderly people · こうれいしゃ; politer: (kōrei no kata)
- 費用hiyōcost, expenses · ひよう; money that comes in is (shūnyū), income; (teire), upkeep
- 町内会chōnaikaineighbourhood association · ちょうないかい
- 負担futanburden, cost to be borne · ふたん; ～の負担になる (no futan ni naru), to fall on …
- 住民jūminresident(s) · じゅうみん; (hansū ijō), more than half; (sanwari), thirty per cent
- 一方でippō deon the other hand, meanwhile · いっぽうで
- 妥協dakyōcompromise · だきょう; (dakyōan), a compromise proposal
- 検討するkentō suruto consider, to look into · けんとうする; (gutaiteki ni), in concrete terms, in detail
- 多数決tasūketsumajority vote · たすうけつ; (tasūketsu de kimeru), to decide by a vote
Practise
1.Which form fits? ___ (Even if we build a car park, I don't think street parking will go down.)
2.Ms Morita objects politely. Put the words in order.
Tap the words below in the right order.Even if we build a car park, isn't it likely that street parking won't go down?
3.Match the Japanese with the English.
Pick a word on the left, then its meaning on the right.
4.At a formal meeting you disagree with what someone has just said. Which is the most polite?
5.Which sentence means “Despite the rain, lots of residents came”?
6.Someone at the meeting is still speaking, but you need to raise a point. What do you say first?
0 of 6 exercises done.
Say it out loud
お話の途中ですみません。
Ohanashi no tochū de sumimasen.
Sorry to interrupt.
Listen, then say it out loud, as close to the recording as you can.
Check
Five questions on this chapter. Then mark it as finished to add its words to your review deck.
0 of 5 answered.